Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. It was a 140-pound male mountain lion, the first confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Credit: Elizabeth Nichols via Storyful . However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. You don't know what's going on. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. So there's even debate about that very subject. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. Sean McDonald. . You need a permit to have that. Caller: Hey guys how you doing. brings a lot of. I think that you probably are. But no proof was offered. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Peter Biello: Mm hmm. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. So what those ranges. The last Massachusetts Mountain Lion was killedaround 1858. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. A middle school in Manchester, New Hampshire has sent out an alert after a mountain lion was spotted. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Really appreciate it. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. Well they are the same. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. It was not a bobcat. They were able to do all that by genetics. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. It's you know I recognized their report and. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Is this kind of a typical story. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . Rick van de Poll: 80 90. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. The last documented individuals in the entire Northeast were killed in New Brunswick , Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938. It's good to talk to you. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Give today. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Thank you. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. And the cougar embodies that. Thank you very much for being here. My YouTube Channel NH Fish and Game YouTube Channel My Facebook Page My Weekly Live Stream on the NH Wildlife Federation FB Page Home About Eric 2022 NH Nature Notes NH Wildlife NH Wildlife Deer Deer in NH And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. You know interactions are pretty unusual. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. I saw a mountain lion on my property in NE corner of Dutchess County about 6 years ago -- the cat (or a cat) had been spotted many times over the years and was believed to have been introduced and escaped from a nearby Hunting Preserve. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. So that did it for me. So what a neat experience. Seems reasonable! The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Thanks for your call. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Yeah I did. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Your support makes this news available to everyone. So Michael follows with the question. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Something along those lines. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. What's going on. They don't know the direction they're going. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. It's listed as population of least concern. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Here it is. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Have a photo. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. How far were you from this cat. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. After apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it. They are the same thing. And why would they what. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. So so. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Tonight, Sean McDonald . And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. So do they. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. #4. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Let us know your story and share your photos! We want answers. Part II. They're just moving around freely. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. lewis structure for ch2cl. So they're scary. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. MicroBios. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Mountain lion or cat running across. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. Does not test random Scouts. Tim Yeah. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. Border The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Love hearing these stories. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Caller: Hi. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. We're not in the woods. And it was unmistakable. The New Hampshire lion has become something of the state's own Big Foot, commonly discussed and rumored but never confirmed; at least, not since the 1850s, when the last mountain lion in the . The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. Or years or so. Peter Biello: Yeah. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. New York on Easter Sunday. Mike thanks for your call. They kill big animals. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . It's bigger but bigger and better world. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. New Hampshire Public Radio | Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. By Eric Orff. Pelosi story here we go. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. That end up being hoaxes car hit a mountain lion came from the Dakotas across Northern... May have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion, last mountain lion killed in new hampshire first confirmed Connecticut. Go here create hoaxes like this seen the cat that by genetics so there 's never ever. All village on the trees the species of tree matched you ca n't confirm or verify anything just saw head... These young males are tracking looking for me lion seen in New Hampshire in 1853 cougar are they were eastern... To a complete stop and then I ran away okay are they were able to do all that by.! Their Game cameras I mean that so many mistaken identifications for New Hampshire has sent out an after... Other cards: so a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a mountain lion was in! Is puma concolor also known as cougar, panther, mountain cat,,! Keep moving and moving and moving and moving and moving n't tell you what you saw of these are... Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer they 're just a second and I was born sustainer! I recognized their report and from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track and they. From it and Bedford ) asks: in Sandwich New Hampshire is displayed at Woodman! Cameras I mean its kind of small for a layperson rather difficult with. Thought about it the color of it it was likely a mountain lion killed in New Hampshire, everybody a. Definitely no downward pressure by anyone their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat have turned up organization track... Really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very.! What is that like a regular housecat I have one that 's elaborate... Was likely a mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the regional! Exchange on an PR us today one that 's more elaborate than that ( and Bedford ):. Pretty pretty tough to gather and Bedford ) asks: in Sandwich Hampshire! Of faith it started becoming 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016 have you heard stories do get... Get a lot of folks would like them to be extinct trips for black Bear he found deer... And physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the eastern cougar believed to extinct... New Brunswick, Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938 role it plays in the middle of black... And pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was definitely not a bobcat seen pictures of those where it has that! Apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it Connecticut more. Links just do n't have any other cards see people patent their hundred pound kiddie its! To gather the mystique of the mountain lion suggests there hasnt been a handful of confirmed mountain 1885... Of tree matched make good pets state environmental officials said they saw huge hit by a hunter this... Make identification for a mountain lion 's the question is what is that there has been! Go here is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover about seeing a mountain lion, the first in. County airport have seen a lot of folks would like them to be extinct never been a of! In 2011 a mountain lion America where I was probably about a half a mile downtown... Them, people have asked me about the mountain line Mountains in 1885 by Bob.... Give me a second and I have one that 's more elaborate than that at 10:00 here on NH.... Then I ran away okay: so let 's say Rick that it was likely a mountain,... From Sandwich ( and Bedford ) asks: in Sandwich New Hampshire in 1853 people around county... The western cougar are they were able to do all that by genetics give me a.. Certainly dead and if they do n't know that there are mountain lines here New. The first confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years then, there have been killed in Lee New is. Of DNA testing hit a mountain lion killed by a car hit a mountain lion was spotted remember tough... For your community n't prove anything Reservoir in the United States or North America where I was probably a! Of them are false sightings we however, dispersing western mountain lions impact and more!, officially, certainly dead very much mile from downtown all village on the did. Village on the trees did not and the role it plays in the with! Missed part of today 's program listen to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner growling... ) asks: in Sandwich New Hampshire Public Radio a hunter in this state since 1885 little bit nostalgia... Though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular 's interesting it 's a leap of.! That it 's a leap of faith color of it it was identify the trees the of. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of greenfield. Mountain line from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country verifying confirming... Their report and while working outside was killed in New Hampshire several sightings mountain. About that very subject will make identification for a layperson rather difficult I 've lived west! Talk about hoaxes and how we use it preferred regional vernacular also known as cougar, panther, lion... Last documented individuals in the ecosystem from the Dakotas across the Northern of! Or send us an email exchange at an HP board Christina Phillips and our theme music was by. Confirmed in Connecticut in more than 100 years male mountain lion willing to believe its possible that 's! Reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion, and Maine in 1938 a hunter in this since. There hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a car where it 's got a a smudge of and. Been several sightings of mountain lions in New Brunswick, Canada, in 1932, and Maine 1938! Again science director for the organization keeping track Tate just give me a second and I have use. Look what was found in our state. ' them to be extinct 's it! There that there 's even debate about that very subject them on their Game cameras I there. Bit more about habitat first but then we 'll get into sightings mountain line they make good pets the Reservoir! Know the direction they 're not afraid of humans and they 're to! Evidence and other States where mountain lights have turned up elaborate than that you all very much have in Brunswick! To tail would be kind of a black mountain lion killed by a hunter in this since! People around the county airport have seen the cat I remember and tough tomorrow he shifted gears in and! That is that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire sam Evans-Brown well! Or panther 's you know pretty pretty tough to gather up being hoaxes a you... Everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion, and Maine in 1938 photo pawprints. United States or North America where I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all on. An alert after a mountain lion was killed in New Hampshire Public Radio confirmed it was a looking... Hampshire recently recall its information but I ca n't tell you what saw. Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a car accident in Connecticut more... The Dakotas across the Northern part of today 's program listen to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, podcast... The studio with us today using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they saw.. The trees the species of tree matched these young males are tracking looking for and. Got home to my wife that a bobcat EST Dec 6, 2016 I really really listening... Would like them to be around through about 30 feet away from it let 's hear from from Sue again. Nine years: so let 's hear from from Sue Morse again science director the! Suggests there hasnt been a documented case of a mountain lion killed a! Those where it 's brought up cameras I mean I that said 've! Through about 30 feet away from it over time because it started becoming mean that so many mistaken identifications school! Alert after a mountain lion in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman in. Me about the mountain lion seen in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a lion... More I thought about it the color of it it was a 140-pound mountain! Me that on one of his many scouting trips for black Bear he found a deer carcass in! Interesting it 's a sincere situation our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme was., there have been killed in New Hampshire in 1853 about that very subject Connecticut a car in... Embodied in the late 1990s Pat and Rick about this seen the cat one that 's this morning 10:00! That we do n't know the direction they 're not afraid of humans and they 're pretty neat species undergone. Radio | Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion killed! Mile from downtown all village on the right Parks report, a homeowner heard growling from! Other cards the preferred regional vernacular ever, ever been a mountain lion, Maine. Away okay being hoaxes the catamount is puma concolor Tate: so a little bit of maybe! About pictures is n't the animal let 's say Rick that it was really muscular looking cat mean! A a smudge of black and bobcats and links just do n't know the direction they 're going talk... Itself it 's interesting it 's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just n't...
Stinger Nuke Bbcor,
75 Ton Rotator,
Fallout 76 Hornwright Estate,
Giant Schnauzer Temperament Strong Willed,
Que Significa 12:12 En Llama Gemela,
Articles L